settingup a creative group

Hmmm, I read through what I wrote and I can see that I believe that about 90% of what most people would call creativity is actually methodical, patient, hard work. which requires considerable effort and persistence. Like the saying that genius is 10% inspiration and 90% perspiration.

I think fear of being seen as mad is also a huge obstacle to creativity. For example, a good solution to a problem might be to use a piece of furniture upside down. But people are quite likely to say You can't do that" (because no-one else does it.) Or they might start speculating and gossiping about your lack of sanity.

This is a very serious consideration because society has very severely punished people deemed mad, to the point of imprisoning them, torturing them and even mutilating and killing them.

Anyone familiar with the way that mathematics was taught in pre-WW2 Hungary, and how it generated this incredible community of creative mathematicians will know how creativity flourishes in an encouraging (and safe) social context. Anyone familiar with Amy Wallace's book The Prodigy about a very clever young American man, and how he ended up being an isolated social misfit, will know how rarely safe creative communities arise. Through history, human society has probably painfully discarded and wasted its cleverest people because they could not generally be understood and were seen as mad.

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Permalink Reply by Monita Roughsedge on April 21, 2010 at 7:38

Yes, I agree the way most of us have been taught to think throughout our education can create a sense of fear and trepidation towards those who 'think' or act differently. Perhaps this is all the more reason to pursue the path of creative thinking and encourage others to do the same. Personally I find that being disheartened by our usual modus operandi, of fear and condemnation, sparks my enthusiasm for creative change. Surely there is no merit here in the devil we know......best we burn him at the stake;-)

Permalink Reply by Diane Yeldon on April 21, 2010 at 11:18

Hi, Monita, I agree. We accustomed to call it education but it's more like training. A lot of becoming creative IMO is un-learning -especially stuff we weren't aware we believed but just took for granted. Assumptions. Consider Euclid's plane geometry - there was a set of assumptions that were taught and studied for centuries by virtually every educated young man.The fifth postulate that parallel lines never meet caused only a microscopic fraction of these masses of people any problem. Can you imagine what anyone wondering if it was true wolud have been told? Perhaps "How could Euclid possibly be wrong. And what do you know anyway? Who do you think you are?" So any desire to check things out or think for yourself ie creatively would be seen as demonstrating the sin of pride. Of course, Euclid wasn't exactly wrong -It just wasnt the whole'story. But it seems so few people asked What if? But maybe they thought it but kept quiet because questions would have been socially unacceptable.
Has anyone noticed how Scotland historically produced far more creative people than its kind of statistical ration? People of Jewish descent have too, but that's easier to understand because of the cultural value placed on books and learning. I read that in Scotland this creative success cold be attriuted to an education system which allowed any able boy from any background, no matter how poor, access to good education. And that that in turn was an influence of the democatic structure of the Church of Scotland. Makes me wonder what happened to creative thinking girls though.
Could we end up with an incredibly creative community via theinternet or is this medium too distant and artifical?

Permalink Reply by Asa Jomard on April 21, 2010 at 17:33

I think the anonymity on the web can encourage people to tell others about their "mad" and "unconventional" ideas. But to acutually find someone who dares to believe in the new ideas might be a difficult. Sometimes creative people are bad at marketing their ideas and they may also believe that their ideas are "useless". Support from others likeminded people might increase the chances of an idea being used.

Perhaps forums where people can discuss their ideas is a good thing, but then again someone might steal the next big invention. So how do you solve that problem?

Permalink Reply by Diane Yeldon on April 21, 2010 at 19:17

Hi, Asa, the comment about 'stealing the next big invention' has many assumptions built in. First ,that creativity might be limited to making products, and second, an assumption of conventional intellectual property rights and copyrights. So the ówner' of the creativity is supposed to be rewarded by financial profit.
Onthe contrary, in my view the human species is under threat of survival as a result of its own stupidity in despoiling the earth, and the real immediate problem is not how creative individuals can make a personal profit but how a community of creative (and daring!) thinkers can work out how to save us collectively. The clock is ticking and many analysts think it is already too late. The question in my mind is whether we can save the culture. A few human communities surviving here and there is not enough -we need to try to save the culture, because this holds thousands of years of human development of the understanding of reality and how Nature works and it would just be such a terrible waste to have to do it all over again.There is no point in being rich (i.e having lots of money) when there is no food to buy, no water to drink, no way to keep warm and safe. Our technological life-support systems, particularly urban ones are unsustainable and breaking down. Our very economic system (records of all that lovely money) is actually quite nonsensical and also unsustainable. We are dependent on fossil fuel which is running out. We have so wrecked the water cycle in many human habitats that we are running out of potable water and water for food growing. Our city infrastructures ie waste pipes and sewers are dying of old age and are overwhelmingly expensive to repair. I could go on but only those who can see can see -the rest are blind.

As for fear of being called mad, there is now (recently developed) one social group which is not afraid of this. And that is the group of people who have already been called mad, and developed a collective social identity which could be summed up as 'mad pride'. Such individuals have always been an extreme statistical minority but with modern communications they can reach each other, make social connections and, through the strength of numbers, act politically to defend themselves from being misunderstood, feared, oppressed and persecuted. An example is the online community of Äspies' i.e people with Aspergers Syndrome (not 'disorder!) - and Aspies are often hightly intelligent, gifted and creative, possibly because they can't lie, neither to others nor to themselves.
Another creative mad community is people who have experienced what are called pyschotic episodes.
Because IMO opinion, psychotic episodes can be understood as reframing of experience and belief, and what is the nomos in one culture can be psychosis in another. For example, a New Guinea cannibal headhunter is normal within his own culture and so are beliefs which support his behaviour (such as the belief he must eat his dead enemy to prevent him being haunted by his spirit ,or some such). But clearly a person who thought that and acted on it would be considered extremely psychotic in our culture. The point is that people who, though either stress or genetic inclination, have experienced what we call psychosis have experienced profound reframing of supposed reality. So they know it is possible to see things in different ways. In other words, their capacity for reframing is huge - they can think outside the square when other people don't even know the square is there. IMO the terms creativity and reframing are pretty much interchangable. Or why do we say Aha! I see! (suddenly) -when we get the answer. We fit the jigsaw pieces of our experience of reality together differently. This can be a very frightening experience at first, especially when ignorant people tell you it is unhealthy. But throughout human history,there have always been people who have had profound reframing skills. It's only recently that they have had the communication means to develop a community to exchange ideas and also act politically collectively so they can feel safe and no longer socially persecuted.

Permalink Reply by Asa Jomard on April 27, 2010 at 11:42

Hi Diane,
I agree with you are saying. The state of the world is serious, adn there are mnay prejudice towards peopel who do not fit in the defintion of was is considered to be "normal" in society.
I think it is important to separate different goals and aims.
I think it is vital to have a place where the goal is to help save the planet.
But I can also see other ways of using creativity and the web,and in some of these cases it is important to look and discuss copyright. As long as we have not changed the rules and laws it is important to know how to avoid, for example, fear that someone might use a solution. The saddest consequence might be that unless this is clear we may prevent people from adding solutions.

Permalink Reply by Diane Yeldon on April 27, 2010 at 12:49

Hi, Asa, copyright rules are a dog's breakfast any way. Originally a copyright might have been exactly that a law forbidding someone to make a copy of a book so that the author could get some financial benefit for having written it. This does make some sense because we can assume that the writing of books benefits society. However, it also doesn't make sense because on the one hand you are saying books benefit society and then on the other you are saying but we must restrict their circulatiion,particularly from the poor, or for that matter from the young who have not yet had a chance to earn money to buy things, So historically we had a solution to one problem creating bigger and different problems. Things have just got worse and more illogical and good for lawyers since then. Now we have the ridiculous concept of intellectual property, when even the concept of tangible property is already confused. Do you own the stars? Or the wind? Or anything? What does own mean - except to keep something for your self and not let other people have it.
I think the big obstacle to people earning money for their creative efforts online is that we haven't yet worked out really simple ways of showing our appreciation by giving them a dollar or two - a kind of financial Well Done! or Thank you! or like clapping. Someone out of the goodness of their heart might invent a click a dollar ( or even a dime, or even a cent) scheme. I kow it is possible to deposit money into another person's bank account if you have their bank account number (although obviously you cant take money out). I opened a bank account for one of my c'hildren although he was under age. Does anyone know if you can open a bank account for another person without them being involved or even knowing about it? If you can or at some later date could ,then that bank account number could be made public by fans and people could just click a bit of money in when they came across some work they liked.
We have this assumption that people hate working and will only work if they are paid. In fact we define work (almost) as the opposite of play. This makes for a pretty miserable society.People are most creative (and happy) when they are doing what they like, and they are generally good at what they like because they do it a lot and get lots of practice.
Work where you are told what to do by someone else destroys creativity. The real fear is not that someone might steal your solution'''- it's that you might starve to death without money.